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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  11:34:03  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Gambian electricity is produced by lebanese businessman. Construction business by Lebanese, Arab-Africans, Mauritinians, corner stores belong to guinians, and other africans. Hotels business own by Europeans and Arabs. Senegambia area own by Lebanese. Even chinese coming to do farming. Of course, as immigrants they have right to do business and there are benefits to gambian economy. And these immigrants take the profit to their countries. So, why aren't Gambians good in Business. It seems like Gambians are settled with employement only.






diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Janko

Gambia
1257 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  12:38:14  Show Profile  Visit Janko's Homepage Send Janko a Private Message
You ask very valid questions, that need be looked into

Interesting that the Gambians you find in other West African countries like Ghana, Nigeria are doing what other immigrants like the Mauritanians, Guineans etc. are doing in the Gambia.......interesting

Clean your house before pointing a finger ... Never be moved by delirious Well-wishers in their ecstasy
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  13:09:39  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Will Gambian lose their economic soverignity?

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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tamsier



United Kingdom
551 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  13:27:55  Show Profile
Good point Turk. Once upon a time, there were well known Gambian business men e.g the late Momodou Musa Njie,etc. Where are some of them now? I am relocating my london business to the Gambia and setting up a Branch in Nigeria this year, so everyone pray for me. If I can do it, any Gambian can. There should be schemes in place to help Gambians wishing to venture into business. Start small then think big. If this becomes a culture, then I'm sure you'll see a difference in years to come.

Tamsier

Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.

Roog a fa ha.

Edited by - tamsier on 29 May 2008 13:32:43
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Janyanfara



Tanzania
1350 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  13:57:55  Show Profile Send Janyanfara a Private Message
No turks,

You see it is basically pride that prevents Gambians or citizens of any nation for that matter to do small labour or manual jobs.As for business, ofcause Gambians are comming up to take care of some sectors

Let me give you classical explainations

Look @ Europe and America, even these manual jobs are mostly taken by foreigners you know citizens are mostly reluctant to do cleaning jobs.Come-on those are for ludgers you know.Likewise in the Gambia these petty petty trading are done by foreigners.

As for Construction business by Lebanese, How about Taf& Botto constructions ect ect?

Hotels business own by Europeans and Arabs I think you miss the Gambia my brother.Gambians are buying their own hotels every now and then from such as Calton,Badala park,Sambus,Sarge hotel(former Tafbel) Kairaba beach,Banna Beach, just to name a few.All these are own by Gambians fair and square.If you compare to howmany Gambians owned Hotels,Bars and expensive resturants in the Gambia to foreigners,then you will know we are running the show in the tourism
industry not foreigners

To answer some of you question let me tell you how hard some business men& women failed and why some are still reluctant to invest into lucriative bisinesses? If you live in the Gambia living within the extended family system doing your business, it is as hard as rock to penetrate the success market because you must employ extended family members otherwise you would be considered witched or even unsymphatetic towards less fortunate members of one's extended family.If you employ them and they misuse their position or squandered your wealth,it is mostly difficult to prosecute them to recover what you've lost as elders and community so called leaders would come to you for a perdon which you can't mostly refuse.

The reason you see these Lebanese, Guinians ect succeed is because they are far from Home and live with just few of their own kinsmen thereby able to accumulate most of their savings and able to reinvest thus gaining.If they also have people knocking at their doors everyday complaining of lark of lunch,or a sick member is brought to their houses to take to hospital or everyday naming ceremonies which they must invest or village comming to addopt them as fathers/mothers of given task of building the village mosque ect ect,except if their money is comming from God's Bank,they would fail in the business.

See some Gambians outside of the Gambia.Bo I tell you ,you must return the respect to them.We are very business conscious and hard working.Just give us the chance to leave HOME for a while.

Edited by - Janyanfara on 29 May 2008 13:59:18
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  13:58:10  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
The ottoman, 600 year of empire was ended because of this. Ottoman economy was based on war. The politicians and soldiers were the most respected and prestigiuos people. Most turks would take jobs in Government, military or the agriculture was the second as turks possess most lands. The second class citizens jews, armenians, greeks were mostly doing business. Doing business would be considered as losers' job.

Ottomans were the most powerfull during 15 to 17th century, but this politicians and soldiers did not have economic vision. The main purpose was, under hilaphet, establishing islamic empire. Instead of going central asia, they invaded arab lands and europe. They did not have business class to influence ottoman politics as the european busineess class/industrialist did. They did not colonize.

Business class is the most critical class in a nation. As greeks, armenians, jews berry the ottomans to the grave with their increasing power in 18 and 19th century as ottoman empire lost their economic soverignity first, than lost the empire. I urge Gambians to focus on the protect their economic soverignity to survive. Develop a business class.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.
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toubab1020



8444 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  14:05:15  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by tamsier

Good point Turk. Once upon a time, there were well known Gambian business men e.g the late Momodou Musa Njie,etc. Where are some of them now? I am relocating my london business to the Gambia and setting up a Branch in Nigeria this year, so everyone pray for me. If I can do it, any Gambian can. There should be schemes in place to help Gambians wishing to venture into business. Start small then think big. If this becomes a culture, then I'm sure you'll see a difference in years to come.



GIGANTIC step tamsier,hope you make it,opportunities still exist in the third world but making money from those ventures is often impossible!

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janyanfara



Tanzania
1350 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  14:17:46  Show Profile Send Janyanfara a Private Message
My Brother Tamsir,I personally wish you all the success.Be wise and watchful God will surely help you.
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  14:18:51  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
Janyafara

When did you go to Gambia last time. Gambians may not be minority in Gambian business, but they are not dominating either. Many construction, food sector NOT GAMBIANS. There are Gambians of course, but they are supposed to dominate the business, but they are not dominating. Senegambia area, most restaurants are lebanase. I think you did not go to senegambia for a long time. And hotels. Here are the ownership of hotels in Gambia according to a tourism statistics for gambia.

Table 3: Main tourist hotels

Name Ownership
African Village Irish
Badala Park Hotel Gambian-Lebanese
Bakotu Hotel 180 Swedish
Bungalow Beach Hotel Gambian
Cape Point Hotel Gambian
Corinthia Atlantic Hotel Libyan
Fajara Hotel 560 Gambian
Holiday Beach Club Libyan
Kairaba Hotel 302 Kuwaiti
Kombo Beach Hotel British
Mansea Beach Hotel Libyan
Ocean Bay Hotel Government
Palm Beach Hotel Gambian
Palm Grove Hotel European
Palma Rima Hotel Gambian
Paradise Beach Hotel Libyan
Sarge’s Hotel 196 Gambian
Senegambia Beach Hotel Italian / Gambian-Lebanese
Sun beach Hotel Resort Mauritian
Sunset Beach Hotel 226 Lebanese

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Edited by - turk on 29 May 2008 14:20:10
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toubab1020



8444 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  14:22:43  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara

[size=3]No turks,

"You see it is basically pride that prevents Gambians or citizens of any nation for that matter to do small labour or manual jobs."


I would disagree with that my friend who is a Gambian painter and decorator has completed many small contracts for Gambians,painting rooms,houses etc. where the Gambian householder provided the paint brushes etc and agreed payment for my friends labour after the job had been completed,what happened in some cases when my friend went to collect his wages he was met with the response by the Gambian householder,"Oh sorry I havn't any money now",or "I am travelling tomorrow and I havn't any money come back when I return" .When my friend returns again to try to collect his money,the answer is still the same.Therefore it follows that with such dissapointments he prefers to work for Toubabs because they pay as agreed.This story is true,but it is only one man's experience I grant you.If you go to a shop and say to the shopkeeper give me two eggs 2 bread and four cups of rice,you will have to pay before you get the items,the same is not true of labour.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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Janyanfara



Tanzania
1350 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  14:55:08  Show Profile Send Janyanfara a Private Message
Here we go my brother turks
Out of 20 hotels you named so far, Gambians owned or partly owned half plus hotels like Mariatu Beach,Bakadagi,Bigilo ect ect now are we not almost running the show? Tell me,is this no progress for a developing third world country?I think you have answered your self in that light and to tell you the truth, I travelled to the Gambia twice every year.Also think of resturants and clubs.

As for my brother toubab1020,

What are you argueing about?

What you talk of seems to concern dishonesty right?
I belief it is also one of the reasons Gambians would rather work for a foreigner than their fellow countryman?That butresses my point about Gambians rather working abroad than home.If one would rather work for a foreigmner than a countryman, it is because one reason or the other there would be dissatisfaction thus rendering the business a failure.Despite all these some still work and receive their pay on time right?So all is still not lost.

Edited by - Janyanfara on 29 May 2008 15:00:53
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gambiabev

United Kingdom
3087 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  15:22:02  Show Profile Send gambiabev a Private Message
Hotel workers were recently on strike for not being paid for several months.

Many hotels that have a Gambian 'owner' the Gambian is a co-owner....a front man for the business. The money man is from else where and the profits go elsewhere. At least that is my understanding.
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toubab1020



8444 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  15:33:14  Show Profile Send toubab1020 a Private Message
quote:
Originally posted by Janyanfara

As for my brother toubab1020,

What are you argueing about?

What you talk of seems to concern dishonesty right?
I belief it is also one of the reasons Gambians would rather work for a foreigner than their fellow countryman?That butresses my point about Gambians rather working abroad than home.If one would rather work for a foreigmner than a countryman, it is because one reason or the other there would be dissatisfaction thus rendering the business a failure.Despite all these some still work and receive their pay on time right?So all is still not lost


I did not intentionally raise dishonesty as subject for discusson my reply was that of the experience of one Gambian man who had very little money and a family (himself/ and 5 kids)he did a job and was not paid for it,not once but many times,I also did not intend to critise every Gambian,from your comments on my posting,you are in basic agreement with me except your reasonings of the causes are different I won't argue with that,as I was at pains to point out this was the experience of one man.I also know a woman who is a hairdresser and has in the course of her platting work as a hairdresser has platted hair on more than one occasion,been promised full payment on the following day only to find out that the woman has travelled,two days work for nothing.

"Simple is good" & I strongly dislike politics. You cannot defend the indefensible.
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tamsier



United Kingdom
551 Posts

Posted - 29 May 2008 :  17:35:31  Show Profile
Thanks toubab and thanks jan - will take your advice.

Tamsier

Serere heritage. Serere religion. Serere to the end.

Roog a fa ha.
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Janyanfara



Tanzania
1350 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2008 :  00:39:03  Show Profile Send Janyanfara a Private Message
Oh my dear brother toubab,

The man and the lady you mentioned we dishonestly cheated off their sweat.Those who were surposed to pay them for the work they did were dishonest right?This is a basic fact and I belief such are discouraging to many young ones?

Now how about many of our dear young ones who after western education would just sit at home only brewing "attaya" saying they must go to babylon when they don't even have one kobo?Is it not because they feel pride to do certain labour jobs at home to earn them some form of income?And even the lucky ones who made it to either Europe or America,are they not doing some of the jobs they refused back home?Maybe its the value of the money that make the difference but the labour is the same.

All the above comes back to my first point.You see,let us focus on what is the way forward rather than excuses and blame game.Many nations are furging ahead.so are we to wait until it is too late?

What you've just narrated are the kind of things that some of our very few greedy able ones practice that discourage many but should we let them succeed?
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turk



USA
3356 Posts

Posted - 30 May 2008 :  01:04:39  Show Profile  Visit turk's Homepage Send turk a Private Message
African Village Irish
Badala Park Hotel Gambian-Lebanese
Bakotu Hotel 180 Swedish
Bungalow Beach Hotel Gambian
Cape Point Hotel Gambian
Corinthia Atlantic Hotel Libyan
Fajara Hotel 560 Gambian
Holiday Beach Club Libyan
Kairaba Hotel 302 Kuwaiti
Kombo Beach Hotel British
Mansea Beach Hotel Libyan
Ocean Bay Hotel Government
Palm Beach Hotel Gambian
Palm Grove Hotel European
Palma Rima Hotel Gambian
Paradise Beach Hotel Libyan
Sarge’s Hotel 196 Gambian
Senegambia Beach Hotel Belgian
Shereton EU/US
Sun beach Hotel Resort Mauritian
Sunset Beach Hotel 226 Lebanese

Only 21 hotels here only 7.5 Gambian. Interestingly, the gambian ownership mostly for small hotels. Bigger hotels are foreign base. That is too low for Gambian presense in hotel industry. Also, in senegambia most restaurants/bars owned by Lebanaese. And most important the hotel rates/labour cost rates very disadvantagous to Gambian workers. For example both gambian and turkish hotels charging same price for the hotel accommodation but a gambian worker get minimum 1000 dalasi per month where minimum hotel workers' wage in Turkey gets 10,000 dalasi.

And imports are mostly handled by lebanase. It is interesting a tomamto paste in gambia twice expensive than same brand tomato in Turkey. And same tomota paste is 1.5 expensive than in senegal.

Chinese products in gambia even more expensive than chinese products here OZ or in Turkey.


p.s. Foreign investment is good for the country. If it is regulated properly in terms of tax/salary/take-home-revenue/social responsibilities of invester are key.

diaspora! Too many Chiefs and Very Few Indians.

Halifa Salah: PDOIS is however realistic. It is fully aware that the Gambian voters are yet to reach a level of political consciousness that they rely on to vote on the basis of Principles, policies and programmes and practices.

Edited by - turk on 30 May 2008 01:29:20
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